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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) DB is not very Dog Friendly (Read 2180 times)
Andy
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DB is not very Dog Friendly
Apr 16th, 2017 at 5:13am
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It used to be that DB was renowned for being dog friendly. What happened?

Beach - no dogs allowed
Restaurants - no dogs allowed (only McSorleys and Il Belpaise exceptions)
Buses out of DB - no dogs allowed

Why can't DB be more dog tolerant? A compromise...

Beach - can we have dogs allowed on the beach before 8am and after 8pm?

Restaurants - can we have dogs allowed in restaurants with outdoors seating?

Buses - can we have dogs allowed on one bus every hour to get to Tung Ching or Sunny Bay?

Plaza (N and S) - can we have more places to tie up the dogs whilst we shop?

The tunnel out of DB was a great idea, but why the heck no one thought about the cyclists and the dogs I really have no idea. How about a small bus that runs from the toll gate to Cianti just for bikes and dogs?

  
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Paul A
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #1 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:04am
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On the contrary. I think DB is over accommodating to dogs and their owners. There is always dog dirt on the footpath and dogs running around off the leash.

Many do not clean up after their animals and a lot ignore the 20 kilo rule.  I am very happy that dogs are not allowed on the beach, but you will still see many on there every day !
  
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fish22
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #2 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 1:10am
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Agree with Paul A.
A lot of dog owners do not clean up after their pets.
Restaurant: once we took a table at some restaurant, a woman sat nearby  and placed her small dog ON the table.
The beach: I do not think everyone will like to feel a lot of sand  that flies out of some dog's paws right to your face when you are just relaxed on your beach mat.
  
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Coppergoose
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #3 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 1:40am
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Tai Pak beach has never allowed dogs as far as I can remember. Dogs off leash, poop and dog messes, all ongoing problems for DB. Until every dog is dna tagged, the good dog carers will be lumped with the bad. Why not form a lobby to push for this programme?

External buses do not have space for dogs - maybe there is a rule in HK on this.Take one of the ferries or a taxi.

Nim shue wan beach is natural and dogs enjoy chasing down little sea critters. On a nice day the shellfish pickers wade out with the low tide, more space and fun for canines.
  
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Ger
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #4 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 2:05am
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Coppergoose wrote on Apr 17th, 2017 at 1:40am:
Tai Pak beach has never allowed dogs as far as I can remember. Dogs off leash, poop and dog messes, all ongoing problems for DB. Until every dog is dna tagged, the good dog carers will be lumped with the bad. Why not form a lobby to push for this programme?

External buses do not have space for dogs - maybe there is a rule in HK on this.Take one of the ferries or a taxi.

Nim shue wan beach is natural and dogs enjoy chasing down little sea critters. On a nice day the shellfish pickers wade out with the low tide, more space and fun for canines.

Children play in the sand at Tai Pak Beach.  How would you even consider letting a dog do what it likes in that sand.

Dogs on buses is a Hong Kong regulation.  No dogs allowed on buses or MTR.  That internal buses allow small dogs to be carried in a bag is completely a concession by HKRI.  External buses come under Hong Kong rules.

No objection to dogs pooping in the wild.  The problem lies [literally] on our pavements and village gardens.  Management have posted a notice on the grass in front of The Greens that no dogs are allowed.  Unsurprisingly, it is totally ignored.
  
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Coppergoose
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #5 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 2:34am
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Ger, I was not suggesting dogs be allowed to run free or to foul up Tai Pak beach. DNA tagging for tracing bad owners was what I meant, apologies.

But your comment made me think about children playing on beaches anywhere. Generally, kids under 3 might be at higher risk but they should be closely supervised at all times in any case.

Older kids can already understand about playing safely. Having lived near the sea all my life, it is clear that people and animals can live together without a big nanny state, but those are natural organic communities  Cheesy
  
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Andy
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #6 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 2:57am
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I have never suggested that dog owners do not have a responsibility. I am equally dismayed at dog owners who have no regard to others. I would like to think that the majority of dog owners are responsible.

Restaurants - I do not agree with dogs on the table nor being fed from the table nor being "inside" the restaurant. Outside with the filthy smokers is all I ask.

Buses - I am not suggested breaking any laws. A small van / hire car to transport the dogs (and bikes) through the tunnel is fine. Ferries do not go to Sunny Bay nor Tung Chung, and the taxi is $90 one way.

Beach - this myth that dogs are dirty and flick sand in peoples faces - unbelievable. I asked for a compromise, before 8am (when there is generally no one on the beach) and later in the evening. Or a section of the beach at the very end out of everybody's way. BTW have you been on the beach at 6am and seen the mess that is left by people the day before - rubbish, bottles, cans, food, syringes (yes, I kid you not) - and you worry about the dogs???

Plaza - places to tie up your dog whilst you go shopping... is it really too much to ask!

I AGREE that dogs must be kept under control and every dog owner who fails to do this is letting the rest of the dog owners down.
  
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Coppergoose
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #7 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 3:07am
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Andy wrote on Apr 16th, 2017 at 5:13am:
It used to be that DB was renowned for being dog friendly. What happened?

Beach - no dogs allowed
Restaurants - no dogs allowed (only McSorleys and Il Belpaise exceptions)
Buses out of DB - no dogs allowed

Why can't DB be more dog tolerant? A compromise...

Beach - can we have dogs allowed on the beach before 8am and after 8pm?

Restaurants - can we have dogs allowed in restaurants with outdoors seating?

Buses - can we have dogs allowed on one bus every hour to get to Tung Ching or Sunny Bay?

Plaza (N and S) - can we have more places to tie up the dogs whilst we shop?

The tunnel out of DB was a great idea, but why the heck no one thought about the cyclists and the dogs I really have no idea. How about a small bus that runs from the toll gate to Cianti just for bikes and dogs?



Restaurant policy is set by individual companies. You could approach the chains that operate here to see if they think it worth their while. I think people quickly vote with their dollars either way.

There might be ltd spaces outside Fusion and Wellcome as dogs may fight if they get too close. I would try to shop outside peak times to lessen stress on myself as well as my pet.

Dog owners could cooperate to pool private transport like taxi to outside tunnel.
  
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Coppergoose
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #8 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 3:14am
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The external bus question has been answered.

The ferry suggestion was to address other options for open spaces, SB you cannot get into mtr with dog, TC maybe you can taxipool.

Beach - have you tried other beaches that are not regulated?

Restaurants - maybe sit near the edge of the d deck promenade, leash your dog nearby so you can watch over it. Ask the restaurant for dog designated tables at some corner.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #9 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 10:19am
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Responses are sound, but do not really address the issues.

Beaches - we want to go to the beach in DB

Restaurants - we want to go to the restaurants in DB

Shops - we want to shop as a local in DB when we want

Transport - we want to go to Sunny Bay where the car is parked

I already know the "tricks" of living in DB with a dog, but I would like to see more friendly approach to dogs and their owners. Then we do not have to play dodge the security on the beach, or tie the dog to a tree in the plaza, or pay $90 to get to the car from the North Plaza.

I have observed this weekend and I have not seen one discarded dog poo on the side walk (and to be honest it is VERY RARE), I have not seen one dog out of control (AGAIN VERY RARE), I have seen children saying hello to the leashed dogs in the plaza (with owner's permission) (VERY FREQUENT), I have not seen one dog on the beach (during the day).

Have rules, I completely agree. But let's be more friendly to the dog community.

Not sure why I am writing on here, I guess falls on deaf ears.

  
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Paul A
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #10 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 11:34pm
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Andy,

We want to go to the beach too.  But how can we be sure that all and every dog owner ( and walker)  has cleaned up what was dumped between 8 pm and 8 am ?  You can't and no one can be sure as there are so many irresponsible dog owners out there. It only take one.

If you think I am wrong, go to the terraced area at the top end of Siena Two . You will find dog dirt there every day as well as unleashed dogs over 20 kilos.

For some reason , many dog owners ( & helpers) think that they are exempt from the regulations. So who would be responsible for ensuring that there was no dirt on the beach at 8 am each day ?  Are you going to do it or would you be prepared for all dog owners to have to pay a levy to employ someone to clean up after their dogs ?
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #11 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 1:11am
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Hi Paul,

Littering is against the law, throwing cigarette butts on the floor is against the law, not cleaning up after your dog is against the law... there are laws in place. I cannot control every dog owner from not being responsible, same I cannot control every driver from not speeding, or person from not littering nor smoker from not stubbing out his f*g butt on the floor.

Regulations are made assuming responsible people will follow them. In this respect I can only take the standpoint of the responsible dog owner.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #12 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 3:39am
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Unfortunately you will always have irresponsible dog owners, it is a shame that responsible dog owners become tarred with the same brush. The child of a  friend of ours was bitten by a dog recently in a child's play area, apparently the helper had not put the muzzle on the dog! What on earth was a dog doing in a child`s play area is beyond me.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #13 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 5:29am
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Dog's mess on a beach is particularly revolting as it can become half buried or totally buried in sand.  It beats me how any dog owner with an ounce of decency could take their dog to a beach against regulations which are simply there to maintain public hygiene.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #14 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 10:16am
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Very positive response that!
  
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garmato
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #15 - Apr 28th, 2017 at 12:17pm
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Beach - can we have dogs allowed on the beach before 8am and after 8pm?

If I'm not mistaken, there aren't any guards patrolling the beach. Some people have disregarded the sign and taken their dogs on the beach. It's only the people who don't like it that complain (they don't like dogs running up to them, consider them dirty and fear pee and poo on the beach.

I've seen worse like condoms washing up on the beach and dead animals (cat, jellyfish, puffer fish) and recently we have medical waste, syringes washing up on the beach...

Restaurants - can we have dogs allowed in restaurants with outdoors seating?

There's good reason why dogs aren't allowed inside, mainly their fur. But some people take their dogs inside, even inside shops, but usually these are small sized dogs and put inside a special dog trolley or bag.

Buses - can we have dogs allowed on one bus every hour to get to Tung Ching or Sunny Bay?

Dogs not allowed because of risk of biting or scratching passengers. Even if your dog is the best behaved, it only takes someone accidentally stepping on it or a passenger scared/offended objecting.

But most people are allowed to take their pets on the bus as long as they are concealed in a carrier bag, or crate. If it's a large dog, better take hire car or arrange private transport.

Plaza (N and S) - can we have more places to tie up the dogs whilst we shop?

You can tie your dog up anywhere in the plaza as long as done securely and not in the way of business or hinder the passage of others.

Basically, you'll find ways to manage. It's to be expected that rules will be more restrictive as the the community becomes more crowded.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #16 - Apr 30th, 2017 at 8:09am
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Am I the only person who thinks that owners and helpers who tie up barking dogs in the plaza while they go to the hairdresser, bank etc are inconsiderate to other plaza users and nearby residents, generally antisocial and uncivilized? Dogs that cannot be trained not to bark should be left at home. I also think it is cruel to tie up a hysterically barking dog. Owners may wish to investigate what helpers are doing in this regard
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #17 - Apr 30th, 2017 at 8:12am
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One might argue that parents should actually supervise what their children are doing but I recently saw a very young child approaching an unattended angry dog
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #18 - May 1st, 2017 at 2:41am
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HKHIKER wrote on Apr 30th, 2017 at 8:09am:
Am I the only person who thinks that owners and helpers who tie up barking dogs in the plaza while they go to the hairdresser, bank etc are inconsiderate to other plaza users and nearby residents, generally antisocial and uncivilized? Dogs that cannot be trained not to bark should be left at home. I also think it is cruel to tie up a hysterically barking dog. Owners may wish to investigate what helpers are doing in this regard


I rarely if ever thought about the cruelty of tying a dog up in DB Plaza. It's a temporary solution which I think majority of people consider acceptable. Sure, there could be even better arrangements such as more than one person in family going out so that if one of them needs to use bank, do shopping, hair done, etc, someone else can be with the dog while waiting.

There are some dogs that really amaze me for how well behaved and intelligent they are. There are dogs that do not need a leash at all and will sit patiently outside the shops for their owner. Some will walk around the plaza and never get distracted by other dogs. If only everyone's dogs could be as well behaved.

If a dog barks when tied in plaza, how much worse it must be if left at home? I'm sure many anti-dog persons would rather no dogs in DB. It would rid all incidents of dog bites to children and helpers, no more fear of stepping in dog poo and no dead patches of grass from dog wee.

The last sentence about helpers is a strange one. I'm only aware of helpers tying up dogs if they are running errands in the plaza. Others sit at plaza tables with their dogs to have their lunch break with friends, or picking up children from school and to play in the plaza. Nothing out of the ordinary.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #19 - May 1st, 2017 at 4:58am
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It is difficult bringing dogs to places where people congregate.

It is hard to be dog friendly when you see a pool of urine outside Wellcome where the dog was parked and the carer could not be bothered to clean up after shopping and retrieving the pet.

If proximity is the problem, then separation is the solution. While DB is nice for pets in the spacious surroundings, central spaces are another matter altogether.

Would people pay to leave their pets in a dog sitting service area so the dog can be cared for while the owner eats, shops and entertains in the 2 busy Plazas without imposing on others? This is the cost of dog owning in a DB that is going to get busier.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #20 - May 2nd, 2017 at 8:18am
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Coppergoose, that's a good point. As DB gets more crowded, it's definitely going to make the plaza less dog-friendly as more and more people will demand it to be a dog-free zone for reasons of safety and cleanliness.

Would people pay for a dog sitter service in the plaza? Sure! Plenty of people already pay others for dog sitting when they are not able to be with their dog even if a few hours and they do charge per hour. High society has dog spas and dog day care/hotels, the rich pamper their dogs better than the majority of people live in HK so it would be a prestigious selling point of DB to market to the nouveau riche. That seems to be how HKR has been trying to portray DB in their marketing efforts. Until now we still don't have any high street fashion shops they claimed DB offers.

Oh, and DB does have it's share of rich people secretly living here. We have famous local celebrities and even tycoons living here.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #21 - May 2nd, 2017 at 10:49am
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Garmato,

You appear to be the voice of reason.

I wanted to take my dog to Clearwater Bay yesterday. I have a well tempered dog who I rarely need to put on a leash.

To get to my car (at Sunny Bay) I need to take a taxi from the North Plaza. When a taxi driver sees a man with his dog waiting, they generally do one of two things - fake that they have never heard of Sunny Bay or simply refuse to take the dog in their taxi.

When I do eventually get a taxi then it is $90 to Sunny Bay. Then on the way back to DB we have to go through the same procedure, except with less taxis to choose from. It can take a long time to get home and another $90. There is also the hire car in DB to pay for (as I do not live close to the North Plaza).

Very inconvenient, expensive and time consuming.

I am sure that there is demand for a more "friendly" service to Sunny Bay, for dogs and for bikers to share. Does not even have to be that regular, just a timetable.

I wish...

  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #22 - May 2nd, 2017 at 1:16pm
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Andy, too kind. But sometimes in DB I feel like I'm the one losing my mind because I always encounter someone who is very intolerant or really LOVES to mind other people's business  in a negative way (point out all your faults rather than doing something constructive, positive or helpful to others)

How big is your dog? medium? large? During rush hour times, bus driver will not accommodate you. So you need to pick a time when there are few passengers in between those hours.

I heard more locals here are buying dog trolleys from the mainland at a huge fraction of the cost than sold locally. Wellcome is daylight robbery. And use those to get permission to ride the bus or be in places that generally are no-dog zones.

As long as your dog is secured in some way for transportation, rules can be bent. $90 per trip is not good and I understand why some moved out of DB to save money. Having a pet these days has become like raising a child in terms of money, time, energy, love, care you devote to its life time.

It's not only dogs that have hard time to travel around but also many cyclists have complained about not being able to use the bus, and sometimes also wheelchair users (because of snobby young parents who occupy that space with babyless strollers!).

I suggest you talk with your friends with dogs and enquire with City Management, see what possibilities there are. You can also ask how to contact "Passenger Liaisons Group (PLG)" which I think is a group of residents who officially interact with HKR and CM on transport issues for residents.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #23 - Jun 9th, 2017 at 2:25am
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HKHIKER wrote on Apr 30th, 2017 at 8:09am:
Am I the only person who thinks that owners and helpers who tie up barking dogs in the plaza while they go to the hairdresser, bank etc are inconsiderate to other plaza users and nearby residents, generally antisocial and uncivilized? Dogs that cannot be trained not to bark should be left at home. I also think it is cruel to tie up a hysterically barking dog. Owners may wish to investigate what helpers are doing in this regard


you are not alone.. I'm thinking the same thing
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #24 - Jun 10th, 2017 at 1:14am
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... and all those screaming kids too disturbing the tranquility of the plaza. I say leave kids, dogs - the whole lot at home so that we can sit quietly in the plaza and read our papers and drink tea.
  
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Re: DB is not very Dog Friendly
Reply #25 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 3:54am
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