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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) No longer male or female but 50+ genders!? (Read 496 times)
garmato
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No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Mar 11th, 2017 at 12:23pm
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Looks like gender is being redefined. No longer does a pen.is = male or vagina = female... Your gender is determined by what you want it to be?

Is this the new reality?

Lauren Southern becomes a man (skip to 4:29)

In Canada, all you need to officially change your gender on government documents is to bring a doctor's note stating that you identify as whatever gender you choose.



New York City recognized 31 genders:
https://heatst.com/culture-wars/here-are-the-31-gender-identities-new-york-city-
recognizes/

Facebook now lets users choose from 50 genders:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10637968/Facebook-sex-changes-whi...
  
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Ger
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #1 - Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:49pm
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It's true.  Some primary schools have gender-free toilets because boys who were girls and girls who were boys supposedly felt 'discriminated against' by being forced to use designated washrooms.
  
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garmato
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #2 - Mar 12th, 2017 at 3:29am
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Ger, I can understand those who feel they were born in the wrong body and go through psychological sessions before going through with hormone treatment and surgeries to change their physical appearance.

But that has now extended beyond mere genitalia. Gender is now becoming defined by mental state of being rather than physical traits. There used to be just male and female (and transgendered regarded as pretending to be the other gender, i.e. born physically one gender but identifying as the opposite gender). Now there are 30 to 70 or even more "genders" and with overlapping definitions. To me it's very strange. Some insist they are genderless, others insist they are both male and female, etc.

To make it worse some US states and even Canada have already changed the law to recognize and protect "gender identities" and considers it discrimination or a hate crime if you refuse to call a person by their preferred gender noun. They can even force you to refer to them as "ze", "zir", "they", etc instead of "he" or "she".

  
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Coppergoose
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #3 - Mar 12th, 2017 at 5:16am
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Ger wrote on Mar 11th, 2017 at 9:49pm:
It's true.  Some primary schools have gender-free toilets because boys who were girls and girls who were boys supposedly felt 'discriminated against' by being forced to use designated washrooms.


The solution is to allow anyone to enter toilet cubicles and do away with gender rest rooms, wash basins are common area facilities.

TC mtr station has 1 female and 1 mixed gender toilet.
  
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Ger
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #4 - Mar 12th, 2017 at 5:19am
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Frankly, garmato, I think the world has gone mad.  I agree absolutely with what you say about those born in the wrong body.  Everything should be done to help them.

Not long ago, I saw an interview with Stephen Whittle, transgender F to M, on the Australian Network channel.  Having suffered many trials throughout his early life, he seems now to have found a good life as a well-balanced, upbeat and extremely happy fellow.  In fact he was a joy to watch.

That interview is no longer available but there is this lecture he gave at Durham University in case you are interested.  It's a bit long and I haven't watched it all but for what it's worth here is a link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lap2DLdI8Vs

Back to your subject, I believe the 50+ genders you write of are the counsel of despair for any confused person and can lead only to unhappiness.
  
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garmato
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #5 - Mar 13th, 2017 at 2:42am
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Next time I'll better introduce such topics that I find interesting  so that it can attract a discussion.

This one should be "Gender identity: should society embrace the idea of more genders than merely male and female? And should there be laws to force people to call new genders by their preferred pronouns?"

Ger, that link is over an hour, I'll try to watch it in its entirety. I did find the interview on ABC iView link but it's no longer available for viewing online. Too bad really.

Coppergoose, I think that's possible. As long as those are proper cubicles but I think some women would still be uncomfortable about sharing toilet with men. Some places like Japan and South Korea even went the other way by introducing women only train carriages, parking spaces. China seems to have failed in unisex toilets, men are using them but women still avoid it. And they even tried to encourage FUD usage (female urinary device) to get women to pee standing up. It's not practical as it always ends in a mess with pee leaking down the leg.
  
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #6 - Mar 13th, 2017 at 5:05am
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garmato wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 2:42am:
Coppergoose, I think that's possible. As long as those are proper cubicles but I think some women would still be uncomfortable about sharing toilet with men. Some places like Japan and South Korea even went the other way by introducing women only train carriages, parking spaces. China seems to have failed in unisex toilets, men are using them but women still avoid it. And they even tried to encourage FUD usage (female urinary device) to get women to pee standing up. It's not practical as it always ends in a mess with pee leaking down the leg.


Can't really please everyone, there are already lots of gender free toilets,handicapped for example, and those pay per use toilets outdoors. Other countries I have seen women going into male toilets in shopping mall to avoid the long wait.

The common areas can be monitored by CCTV.

I would not mind paying to use an octopus operated toilet that is bigger with a wash basin for privacy and better facilities. Adults with kids or breastfeeding Mothers could also benefit.

Restroom areas used for girl chat/make-up/dressing will need to be redefined.
  
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #7 - Mar 15th, 2017 at 9:25am
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Toilets is one thing. But what do you think about this whole idea about gender identities? Has society stepped over the line on this one? I'd hate to live in a society where you have to step on egg shells. For the sake of granting more freedoms, it's stripping away more freedoms from the majority.

I also watched an old debate regarding gay marriage. The UK had civil partnerships to appease same sex couples without offending religious institutions but same sex couples felt it did not go enough to recognizing equality. And there's other stories how same sex couples deliberately target Christian businesses knowing they would refuse to bake a cake and then put them out of business by labelling them homophobic discriminators.

Now I just read a Texan politician Jessica Farrar wants to introduce legislation to fine any men 100 USD for masturbation if not done in a clinic as a way to teach men about what women have to go through by not having access to government funded abortions. Absolute nonsense and incomparable. I fear the "dumbing of America" has finally come to fruition. Sad

Christina Hoff Summers identifies the problem started appearing as early as 1992 when a study of women was done to identify grievances such as Asian-American woman, African-American women, lesbians... and each group splintered into ever more sub groups such as African-American women discriminating against those who had White partners, and the lesbians split into overweight lesbians, etc. Pandering to those sensitivities created a non-academic gender studies program that resulted in the US campuses having absurd policies like "safe spaces", "trigger words" (words/phrases banned on campus like "that's gay"), and now special pronouns "ze, zir, they" to refer to those who do not identify as male or female.
  
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #8 - Mar 15th, 2017 at 12:41pm
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Sex is biological, male or female with some in between, e.g. XXY

Gender is cultural, masculine feminine. It is not a nouveau or nouvelle thing to experience people with more or less of one gender id.

It has become modern now to talk about an age old phenomenon a la  feminism and other isms.

Equality in toilets means anyone can use the facility regardless of how you look and dress or what is underneath has no relevance to the function/use of toilets, or kitchens, schools, workplaces, dance halls, fighting units, sports etc.

Social media like FB needs new faces/phases to fuel their business. I do not belong there Cheesy

I don't really need to know its biology or gender if it is good or bad by behaviour, I can react accordingly.

Simply put, I really do not care.
  
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #9 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 2:54am
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Well said Coppergoose  " I just don't care'.

I totally agree. There are a lot of other things in the world that worry me more. We have a nut case in North Korea with Nuclear weapons , famine in Africa and  people being imprisoned or even executed for homosexual activity.  Meanwhile we have others worried about which toilets to use and their rights to select an identity that is not on the list .

If some of this effort was put into solving some of the other issues around, it would be better.

Disney is pulling Beauty and the Beast out of Malaysia instead of cutting the 'gay element'.  Copper's Beer in Australia had to publicly apologies for its beer being in an advert discussing same sex marriage. 

We ( the West) needs to get our priorities right !  Worse things happen at sea !
  
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Ger
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #10 - Mar 31st, 2017 at 8:41am
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I don't care either but for anyone who does care, it seems HSBC is giving transgender customers a choice of ten new titles:

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-03-31/hsbc-to-give-transgender-customers-choice-of-...

Should we who have only three choices take to the streets?
  
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #11 - Apr 2nd, 2017 at 1:06pm
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Ger wrote on Mar 31st, 2017 at 8:41am:
I don't care either but for anyone who does care, it seems HSBC is giving transgender customers a choice of ten new titles:

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-03-31/hsbc-to-give-transgender-customers-choice-of-...

Should we who have only three choices take to the streets?


An April Fools joke right?
  
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Ger
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #12 - Apr 3rd, 2017 at 5:49am
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I doubt it.  Minorities consider it no laughing matter.  Someone has tweeted:  "Why don't they just use 'human'?  That's all you need to know."
  
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garmato
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #13 - Apr 4th, 2017 at 6:15am
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It's easy to say you don't care because your rights are not being infringed upon. You're not forced to use these new pronouns to address "non-binary" "gender non-conforming" persons. The point is whether you are supportive of these new gender identities or think they are ridiculous.

In the US, Canada, and seems like the UK are increasingly adopting and accommodating the practice of recognizing new gender identities who are neither male or female and in extreme cases making it a hate crime for refusal to use pronouns like "sie, zie, xe, ve, ae, per, ey, e, tey".

Just looking at those pronouns I find it really crazy. And on YouTube there are more and more of these persons which I guess is what is termed "SJW" (Social Justice Warriors) or as a comment I saw jokingly suggested SJM, M for Morons.

One now famous YouTuber is called "Riley J. Dennis" who describes "herself" as a feminist and is trying to educate the world on such topics. Now the strange thing about Riley is that he is 100% a man. "She" identifies "herself" as a "woman" and a "lesbian" but has not had any surgeries nor any hormone treatment, he is just a man with long hair, prominent Adam's apple, wearing eyeliner and dressing in women's clothing. "She" considers "herself" to be "gender fluid" and uses that reason for not undergoing any form of gender reassignment procedures.

Some people pointed out that Riley can't be considered a woman and at best if using the word "trans", then "transvestite" (man dressing in women's clothing) would be more accurate.

This is a picture of Riley with short hair before growing his hair long. The only difference in the before/after is he wears eyeliner, plucks his eyebrows, and likes to wear women's clothing. Other than that he's 100% a man but wants people to call him a woman and refer to "her" as such.
  
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #14 - Apr 4th, 2017 at 12:50pm
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Ger wrote on Apr 3rd, 2017 at 5:49am:
I doubt it.  Minorities consider it no laughing matter.  Someone has tweeted:  "Why don't they just use 'human'?  That's all you need to know."


I have transgender friends, and I have cis friends who ask me to use gender-neutral pronouns ("they/them" not "she/her.") I support that, I slip up sometimes, they sometimes call me out on it, I sometimes get really embarrassed about it, and they assure me they're not mad.  Nobody gets upset over that.

I get the non-binary, boundaries-blurring "postmodern" trends or arguments.  It's a little hard to get used to, but in theory I support that -- as long as it's pragmatic. 

But, it becomes a problem when people get so militant, you're not even allowed to laugh.  Like at Yale https://youtu.be/xK4MBzp5YwM


I think we have very low tolerance for offense (or difference) in Hong Kong to begin with, I appreciate the general sense of civility and avoidance of confrontation, I'd get sick of it if people try to provoke each other all the time (I'm pretty thin-skinned if you can't tell already, I think the Gweilos call that "face saving," I call that empathy and considerations.) 

With that said, I still think it would be a good thing if we learn to laugh at these little insults, real or perceived.  And maybe lower the pressure for conformity a little.  They're only a big deal if you make it out to be one.
  
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Re: No longer male or female but 50+ genders!?
Reply #15 - Apr 4th, 2017 at 11:30pm
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Cordelia is the voice of sanity.  In the past, humour was sometimes used as a means of lightening tricky social exchanges.  No offence was intended, or taken, and I have been a receiver as well as a contributor.  It was not 'discrimination'.  It applied to all of us. 

The world is now a more serious place.  Reluctance to offend others and fear of prosecution causes people to bite their tongue and keep silent when they would otherwise speak.  I have a thick skin because what didn't kill me made me stronger and I regard myself as happily unoffendable  Smiley
  
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